Is your insurance company being winter tire friendly?
Update: On Friday 3rd December the Association of British Insurers (ABI) issued a statement clarifying that providing the winter tires are in the manufacturers recommended fitment it doesn't not constitute as a chargeable modification. While great news, it seems to skirt around the point of moving to smaller wheels.
Thanks to the coldest winter in 30 years, insurance companies paid out over £395 million across 268,400 motor insurance claims during the worst of the snow in December 2009 and January 2010. If more drivers had taken advantage of winter tires, which can offer over 3 times more traction when compared to regular tires on snow and ice, there's a high probability that number of accidents would have been considerably less, and the insurance companies resulting pay out would have been smaller.
Roll on to now, November 2010, and many people are fitting winter tires to improve the grip of their motor vehicles for the cold season. These actions are commendable, more grip means safer motoring and can only be good from an insurers perspective.
The big issue...
While a few insurance companies are proactively telling drivers to switch to winter tires, a worrying trend seems to be developing. The majority of insurance companies are claiming that switching to winter tires, or a winter tire and wheel combination as specified in the vehicles handbook is a modification and are charging an administration fee and in some cases, increasing the premium. Yes, you read that right, some insurance companies are penalising drivers who are actively trying to improve their road safety!Here at TireReviews we find that both crazy and infuriating so with your help, we'd like to compile a list of winter tire friendly and unfriendly insurers in 2010. Hopefully, with a bit of pressure from the public and the industry we can convince insurance companies to change their opinion of winter tires and to stop charging to fit them.
Please post your winter tire related insurance experience in the comments below. Once we have a good overview of the situation we will follow it up with another post telling you who's good, and who to avoid along with a little pressure for the insurance industry.
I have as a result of your web and other safety information areas bought 4 winter tires from kwik fit.
I have yet to receive them.
I have today renewed my car insurance with Direct Line, as part of the vehicle changes declaration i stated it was my intension to use winter tires. They informed me it was too warm and if i fitted them they would not class me as having insurance. When asked when i could use the winter tires and be covered they could not give me a definitive answer suggesting late November or December.
When questioned further they suggested that a rule book would not cover me for winter tire use
Or the rule book said that
“winter tires wear out quickly thus if winter tires were fitted and they were below the legal limit i would not be covered in the event of an accident”
These 2 statements are different and misleading in my view. I pointed this out but i was again told that i would not be covered insurance wise if i fitted winter tires as it was too warm !!!!
I would like you to clarify this with them as you are promoting the use yet probably the biggest uk insurer is not covering vehicles with winter tires
Please can you help me or i am likely to be stuck with tires i cannot use and spent money on safety.
thought this had been sorted last year ??
Direct line would not be able to refuse your insurance due to it being "too warm", I suggest speaking to a manager to confirm this.The comment regarding the tread depth applies to all tires, not just winter specific.
According to the Association of British Insurers (ABI)
If anything winter tires should reduce the accident risk and, by implication, drivers who fit them are likely to be more risk-conscious too.The major motor insurers have all confirmed that they would not class fitting winter tires as a material modification and it would not impact on the premium. The one condition would be that they would expect such tires to be fitted by reputable garage/dealer, in accordance with the motor manufacturer's specifications.Some said that they would not require the policyholder to tell the insurer these tires had been fitted, but the ABI's advice is to play safe and tell your insurer anyway.
I have two cars insured by Esure and have spoken to two different agents on separate occasions informing them of putting winters on my cars. The tire sizes are smaller than those originally fitted (as recommended by respective manufacturers - Skoda and Toyota). Both agents have gone to their underwriters to check and responded that there was no issue and no charge for such 'change'. One did say that they will put that note on the policy. I may follow up with an email to create a paper trail.
BMW seem to cater very well for winter tire users. My Z4 lists all of the eligible tire sizes, including different speed ratings for winter tires, inside the drivers door alongside trye pressures for each tire. This has assured my that I am fitting the correct tire. I decided to go for narrower /smaller wheels with winter run flat tires. This was the wheel size that BMW recommended for the car in their winter tires packages. I could not afford to buy a second set of BMW wheels so went for some very average after market wheels, taking time to ensure they were exactly the same specification as bmw, including the correct offset. They were fitted by a reputable retailer. I told SHEILAS WHEELS what I was doing. There was no charge for changing to winter tires, but they increased my annual premium by £42 because I had used after market wheels. I explained that I had taken off a set of BMW wheels and tires with a replacement value of £1800, and replaced them with wheels and tires worth only £900. They could not explain why there was no reduction for winter tires to offset the increase. They also said there would be a fee to change, then a fee to change back. I persevered with supervisors and they eventually agreed that they would refund £30 if I only kept the wheels on for 3 months of the 12 month policy, and they would agree to waive the fees. SHEILAS WHEELS were recently featured on watchdog and questioned about increasing premiums for people with none fault losses. They stated that all premiums were increasing due to the number of winter claims. They CLEARLY need to get their statisticians to review their priorities.
It is not a modification of the basic car if the tires are the same size. After all if I change my tires when worn out and say use Dunlop instead of Pirelli or whatever, then I do not notify the insurance company. Why should this be different?
Saad
Quite frankly they can FRO if they think they'd ever get out of paying a claim unless they could prove that the fitment of Winter tires was a direct cause of the claim - and I'd like to see them try! Just another cynical effort to extract more money from us. In fact, when did an 'admin fee' become acceptable practice? Surely that's what is covered by the amount they make on selling you the policy in the first place? It certainly used to be. Rant over.
Called Privilege Insurance.
Yes - I had to notify them, and they would note it. But no charge.
No questions from them on the type or size of tire, or if it met OEM spec.
They were more concerned with me using the winter tires to go off-roading.
Have just spent 10 Mins on the phone with RAC Insurance - staff really helpfull but it kept coming up on the system as a modification, and therefore declined by their underwriters. Finally they spoke to management who said it was ok to go ahead without a charge or change to the policy and just put it in their policy notes.
Just called Morethan and they said as long as it doesn't increase speed or performance, then it'll be fine. I asked them to define performance and they couldn't. I stated that performance could mean many things. It could be an increase in speed or an increase in braking capability - which is what winter tires achieve.
I got put through to the floor supervisor who came out with things such as getting confirmation from Volvo that my new wheels are of the same or better specification than the factory ones. Then they said I wouldn't be coverd if I'm using steel wheels instead of alloy wheels. The new wheels are alloy wheels in which case he said you're covered.
I go to Eastern Europe a lot, hence the need for winter tires. The UK insurance companies need to get with it. On the continent, in many countries, you are expected to have a set of winter wheels / tires. Most people specify them as an extra when buying the car. Also, most ofthe time, they will be steel wheels, after all, what difference does it make what type of wheels they are.
Not impressed with Morethan to be honest. Almost 25 minutes to sort that out! They should encourage us to do this, as it improves safety for everyone on the road.
After making contact by email with RSA, they have clarified the situation nicely and they have assured me that a memo will be sent to all the call centre staff, informing them of their position.
Extract:-
As long as the wheels are the same size as the factory fitted wheel, meets the manufacturers specification and the tires are UK road legal, then there is no issue.
I can confirm that RSA do not charge additional premiums when customers add winter tires to their vehicles, unless they are not UK road legal.
Thanks very much for clarifying that RSA.
For winter I use the same alloy wheels as the car came from the factory with (a spare set bought second hand), and use winter tires in the same size/load/speed as originally fitted.
As far as I'm concerned I'm just fitting another model of tire, and I've never felt the need to tell my insurers every time I've changed tires in the past.
Seem ludicrous that people can drive round in hedge-hunter Wanlis / Nankangs etc without penalty, yet those who choose to go the other way and actually improve safety by fitting winter tires could be at risk of being penalised by their insurers.
Of course, if insurers started to give discounts to those using winter tires in winter months, I'd be on the phone in an instant !
Just had a run in with DIRECTLINE. Initial contact was that it would cost £42 to change to winter tires of which £15 was admin, and admitted that the same cost would probably be applied in March when I swapped back. I explained to them that they were just plain mad, and that I was not going to bother, that I was willing to take the risk of summer tires. This had no effect. Phoned back and demanded to speak to an underwriter to get their explanation. Of course I was denied, but the fee was waived. Still amazed that the conscientious get nailed for doing what is recommended.
Winter tires would seem the right move for the winter that we have been promised. I drive a BMW E92 with 18" runflat tires; do you know any manufactures that produce a runflat snow tire?
There's a few options we can think of. Nokian make the WRG2 in runflat, Goodyear make the Ultragrip in runflat, Bridgestone the Blizzak LM25 and Vredestein make the Wintrac Xtreme Run-Flat - there's probably plenty more though.
Availability will be your issue, a lot of BMW drivers are swapping to non-winter runflats due to this.
I have just fitted Bridgestone Blizzak LM25 to my Z4. Still weighting the rear axle with 6 bags of grit and gravel and placing a bag of gravel on the passenger footwell when I am on my own to balance the car. The performance is amazing. I can't believe I have waited this long to do it ! Availability of run flats still good on mytires though prices have risen 50% since end of October. I have gone down to 16" wheels and 205 tires. Much cheaper. Recommend Alutec Grip aftermarket wheels that are made for winter used.
Just checked with our insurer for fitting H rated Winter tires to the wifes Freelander 2 (Standard wheels)...
Hi Matt,
It doesn't make a difference to MORE TH>N customers (we don't class it as a modification and there is no need to inform us, if you do get them fitted) - i am not sure which company has put out that it does.
many thanks,
xxxx
MORE TH>N PRESS OFFICE
Hi Matt,
This is not what I've just been told by the customer services. Maybe there is a breakdown in communications within this insurance company.
Was this by way ofa personal letter / email?
Thanks,
Mick
Informed Axa insurance that my BMW dealer was supplying winter tires & steel rims to replace the original tires running on 18" alloys and they said that was fine - no change in premium or admin fee.
A number of manufacturers state two wheel size say 15" and 16". As long you are when the size specified. Then changing the tires to winter or snow tires does not constitute a material change.
I would say just do it for your safety.
K Jardaneh
I put Nokian WRG2s on my Subaru Forester and although described as 'all season' they do carry the snowflake symbol. Same size (215/55/17) as the standard and are V rated to 149mph so again no change. Will use these all year as I live in the sticks and use the motorbike during the warmer months.
Interestingly Nokian only market the WRG2 as an "all season" tire in the Americas. This side of the pond the WRG2 is a slush optimised winter tire, and has featured in all the European winter tire tests this year.
Due to this dry / wet bias it's particularly suited to the UK climate.
Until I read this discussion I had never even considered informing my insurance company.
Why would I? On one car I just swop the rubber over. On the other I have a spare set of rims matched to the car with a certificate of conformance.
No problems. Remember that 99% of people in this country still do not understand what Winter Tires are and that includes our Transport Minister Philip Hammond. (See Hansard 1st December 2010).
My motto - just do it.
my tires needed replacing anyway so I purchaed a set of winter tires and put them on the existing wheels .... in my opinion this is not a modification - if any insurer says otherwise ask about using different brand tires when originals need replacing !!!
But if I changed wheels size, eg 18" to 16" then I'd expect insurer to raise a query.
Funny, no-one has ever mentioned the impact of wheel size change on speedo and odometer!
There should not be any impact on your speedo/odometer when changing wheel & tire size as long as you put the correct aspect ratio tires on the smaller wheels, you should just end up with bigger sidewalls compared to the low profile sidewalls to the 18", like wise going the other way to bigger wheels, the aspect ratio should come down (smaller sidewall) so that the overall size is the same as the 16"
You need to ensure that the rolling circumference is the same when you change wheel diameters. There are web-sites that allow you to calculate this, and give you width and aspect ratios to match the summer rolling circumference.
Thats because a lot of the time the wheel size reduction is accompanied by and increase in tire depth. I changed fro 225/45/R17 to 305/55/16. The rolling circumference of the tires is the same ! Same with Volvo V50 - the basis models come with 205/55/R16, the SE models with 205/50/R17 - circumference doesn't vary.
Comfort Insurance has my VW California campervan placed with Aviva Insurance. Phoned Comfort & yes changing to winter tires is considered a modification, I must notify them by email & they will get back to me to confirm ok & make (at least) an admin charge for changing the terms of the policy.
My email made my views on the shortsightedness of this stance very clear indeed ... wasiting for their reply!
This is just plain silly ... but they're not the only ones.
MikeM
Devon
I contacted Elephant, and they were fine with me fitting winter tires, but advised me I need to use wheels that were manuafactured by VW for my specific vehicle, these could either be alloy or steel(as is the spare tire). I simply purchased 4 second hand Passat alloys from e-bay and fitted the tires to those...So didn't cost me any additional insurance, but suspect it would have if I had some non-vw steel wheels fitted.
With Admiral its an extra £35 to cover me until July. They said it is because I plan on changing wheels (from standard alloys to non standard steels) which is classed as a modification as they are not OEM. However, they don't need to be notified when tires are changed.
So it's all about the wheels.
I wonder what they'd say if you were fitting "all season" tires, which are neither a summer or winter tire.
I've taken my BMW 3-series off the factory 17" runflats it was supplied on (SE model) and put it on a spare set of factory 16" alloys off the mechanically identical but lower trim ES model, with winter tires - Direct Line have just charged me £50 extra!!
IF the 16" wheels are listed in the tire sizes on the door sill they are manufacturer recommended and don't need to be declared.
There was no charge from Equity Red Star who manage the car insurance for First Direct bank, just a thanks for actually letting us know!
My wife has a Skoda Octavia VRS which is not great in the winter conditions. Had the idea of changing the alloys and summer tires to steel wheels and winter tires so my wife and child were a bit safer on the road. I have the wheels but no tires yet.
My wife called Tesco to let them know our sensible plan but they want to charge £15 admin fee when / if we put the wheels and tires on and when we change back to the summer wheels and tires. The summer wheels are 18" and the winter wheels are 16" which is the same as the spare wheel for the car. Tesco also wanted to add a charge depending on the cost of the "modification" even when the value of the car would be at least £400 less than with the summer wheels on it.
Can you believe we are being penalised for being safe and sensible :-(
Rang my insurer--Direct Line--to inform them that I had fitted a set of 17inch Lexus wheels with winter tires rather than the OEM 18 inch rims. wern't bothered as long as the wheels were genuine Lexus wheels. No change in policy, just a note on my file.
Implication was that if I had fitted a set of "aftermatket" non Lexus wheels then there might have been a change in the premium
Just informed Lloyds TSB. underwriters are only to happy and wished more people would fit winter tires. No extra cost and added to policy. Was in contact with minister from the transport department some time ago and he said there was no need for winter tires for the small amount of snow we get, so I sent the article from tires reviews to him about the benefits of winter tires, well no surprise that was the last I heard from him (muppit)
They dont have a clue
Aviva had no probs with me fitting winter tires, mine are the same size as standard the only difference being the speed rating dropping from V to H, no need to tell them when I change them either.
It has been noted by the underwriter though.
Don't forget that you are allowed to fit a lower speed rating in winter tires. ie if summer is a V you go to a H (as it will be near impossible to find a V winter) and H down to T.
I have fitted exactly the same size and speed rating as my car has on the door pillar sticker so no insurance issues for me, in fact I would rather not notify them as if I have an accident without them on for some reason they may use that as an excuse to not pay out. I opted for a set of Nokain WRG2 which come in H and T. They were £59 a corner and the day before they were £79 - watch the prices daily, they are still fluctuating.
There are plenty of winter tires in "V" ratings. Dunlop Wintersport 3Ds, Nokian WRG2s, Continental Wintercontact TS830s to name a few (I have used all of these in "V" ratings).
Rang Privilege insurance and explained that I had changed to Winter tires. Privilege just added it as a comment note with no admin charge or premium increase. Well done Privilege for seeing sense!
I must admit that it did take some time for them to understand what I was going on about!
NFU whom i'd recommend without hesitation don't make a fuss about anything, just made a note on my file.
Bradford and Bingley Insurance. Not classed as a mod...but check whether ther'es an admin fee, I think that could vary with who you speak to. UK based Customer Services though and good rates in my experience.
Phoned my Insureres Elephant.Co.UK (AKA Admiral) who were not bothered by my proposal to fit winter tires to my Honda Accord. I have just fitted Continental Winter Contact TS830's and they seem ok - having spent all that money it had better bloody well snow this winter.
Your wish is fulfilled!
Thats good to hear as i'm with elephant and was also looking at fitting the same tires to my Audi A4 Quattro, although i'm pretty impressed with my current Pirreli summer tires as yesterday i drove up a hill past a Land rover freelander that was sat there spinning its wheels but i think i will still change if they are as good as the reviews make out especially as i'm thinking of skiing in europe this winter.
Hi Simon,
You do realise that Quattro is 4 wheel drive??
Bell insurance, don't have any problems using winter tires and you don't need any policy amendment
Thank you for highlighting this point Mr TireReviews , I hope mor people participate and understand the importance.
Royal Sun Alliance via the AA - took two phone calls, but worth it - no charge for fitting four second-hand alloys & four brand new winter alloys.
Liverpool Victoria, after a discussion, agreed to charge neither an additonal premium nor a administration fee for 16" steel wheels with winter tires (as specified in the car handbook) replacing 18" alloys for the winter months.
What would be really interesting is if anyone can find an insurance company that reduced your premium for fitting winter tires. I'm sure there is one, a talking frog was telling me about it in the pub the other week.
Direct line are trying to charge me an extra 20% on my premium!! I'm waiting to speak to a manager as this is stupid.
Keep us posted Jeff thats ridiclous
Interesting, as I rang them to declare putting Michelin Alpin A4's on my wife's Megane and they said it wasn't classed as a modification so didn't need to tell them. I'm thinking it depends on who you speak to.
About to ring my insurers to tell them - and as I'm fitting the narrower tires that the lower spec models came with it could be interesting.
When I bought the car it had four mis-matched tires of brands even google hasn't heard of. These are all now only just legal. I can't see how replacing them in November with four matched and brand new winter tires in November could possibly make me more of a risk. Fingers crossed.
Chris Knott - very accommodating, as you'd expect. No charge.
This is insane to rise to premium. Thay just want to get more money from our pocket. I`m sure if my insurance company would do this I`d leave them! They should pay to those who are fitting their car with winter tires as a `Thank you, to being careful to yourself and the others on the road!`.
Good to know, thanks. We've heard via email Liverpool Victoria were also very accommodating for someone changing to steel wheels and a new tire size (as per the handbook)